Experiences of tangata whenua with insurances | Occasional Conversation Series

In this episode, Hannah Chapman (Ngāti Tūwharetoa) references a story that has been shared with permission by Professor Rebecca Bednarek (Te Herenga Waka—Victoria University of Wellington).  The Matangirua team acknowledge Professor Bednarek for her manaaki in sharing insights from her research [National Hazards Commission, Biennial Research Grant, 4535].

The FMA has published Experiences of tangata whenua with insurances, new research exploring how Māori experience the insurance system in Aotearoa. The research found that while insurance is highly valued, barriers including affordability, trust, product suitability and accessibility can make it difficult for some tangata whenua to access and maintain cover.  

To find out more head to our website.

Transcript

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Tēnā koutou katoa. Welcome to an occasional conversation podcast from the Financial Markets Authority, Te Mana Tātai Hokohoko. Ko Rachel Joel tōku ingoa. And today I'm joined by Liam Mason, Executive Director, Governance, Policy and Strategy, and Hannah Chapman, Strategic Advisor, Māori, to give an overview of the work we're doing to understand the perspectives of tangata whenua in relation to insurances in Aotearoa, New Zealand. Nau mai, haere mai. Thank you both for joining me today. Liam, can you set the scene for me a little bit?

Rachel. Sure. This work was part of our Matangirua programme, which is looking to understand the experiences of Māori within our financial system. We've completed two previous kaupapa Māori research pieces. One was looking at an innovative firm and its pre-licensing experience as it was introduced to regulation. And the second was looking at Māori experience and investment and savings. But this report explores Māori perspectives and experiences with insurance.

So tell me, why does insurance matter?

Well, we know that insurance plays an incredibly important role to protect people, whānau, community, and assets. But up till now, there's been very little research or data about how Māori experience insurance. In fact, one of the main findings from the literature review that was part of this work was just the dearth of knowledge that there is in this area. So, this report fills a significant evidence gap. It gives Māori communities insurance firms, regulators, and even policy makers, a firm base to understand better and to improve. We know already from previous FMA consumer confidence surveys that Māori are consistently less likely to hold insurance than the wider community. And so, the question for us is what's behind all this?

So yeah, what is different about how tangata whenua experience insurance?

Māori engage with insurance on both a personal and collective, individual and collective level. So we have health insurance, life insurance, home contents, car insurance that we're all familiar with. But there are also specific insurance needs for marae, for papakāinga, and for multiple owned whenua. It's important as 1.4 million hectares roundabout of land remains in Māori ownership. And there are unique aspects to whenua Māori which create considerations that are not always reflected in conventional insurance products.

So Hannah, tell me about how you conducted the research.

So we commissioned Demos and Data Limited and with Dr. Lara Greaves as our lead researcher. We were able to conduct the literature review that Liam mentioned. We held two wānanga. One was with Māori who work in the industry, and that particular wānanga informed the design of the survey. The second wānanga that we did was with Māori landowners, governors, iwi and hapū leaders from the Te Arawa region. Lastly, we held a survey, and this was done through an engagement between Demos and Data Limited and the Te Ao Mārama Trust. The trust exercised tiakitanga over this panel called the Te Ao Mārama Panel, and that is a new panel. It is Māori-led and Māori-governed through the trust, and there are 2000 panelists on that, all Māori panelists. And so we were able to engage that panel and to deliver the survey through it. And 952 of those panelists participated, which was a great outcome.

And it points to the interest and the topic. I just want to take the opportunity also to thank all of our participants. So the participants of both wānanga, the panelists and their whānau for their contributions to the research because it wouldn't have been possible without them.

Yeah. And so what did you find out?

So lots. First off that if we sort of break it up into two categories that we had some really clearly identified and consistent themes around barriers. And we also had some consistent themes about potential solutions. So when it comes to the barriers, unsurprisingly, affordability showed up as #1. And that's consistent with other populations in Aotearoa. There's also the issues around accessibility, which I'll unpack a little bit further later on. We also have cultural literacy showing up and that's on behalf of the insurance industry, that there's a lack of it. and that is perceived as a barrier. And then we had these themes of trust or the lack thereof, which showed up. But because those themes are consistent across the survey, the two wānanga, the literature review, there's a really strong foundation there that we can work from, which Liam referred to earlier.

Yeah, so tell me a bit more about those barriers. Let's dive into them a bit. Let's start with affordability.

Yeah, so affordability, there's a general whānau experience. So it's important to note that with the survey, we didn't ask people to just speak from their individual perspective. They could think about their whānau as well. And so we know that whānau, there's increased cost of living, that whānau having to prioritise where their money is spent, and insurance just isn't high on that priority list. When it comes to collective, whether that's hapū or iwi, thinking about insurances for collectively held assets like marae, affordability is a huge issue. And that relates to not just the cost of premiums, but how taonga are valued, how marae are valued. And we heard from different marae about how they're trying to, you know, the different tactics that they're trying to use to address affordability, like some are choosing not to insure the carvings and the panels inside the whare, but so they're just ensuring this, I guess, the skeleton of the whare itself. So people are trying, but affordability is a big issue. And the theme of accessibility, we're not just talking about people who don't have internet access and can't jump online. Accessibility is to do with product suitability. It's to do with information and whether that information is clear and easy for people to understand. Whether the claims process, for example, is clear and they're confident to carry that out. So yeah, there are quite a few things under that theme of accessibility.

And what about distrust and mistrust?

That was an interesting one. So that came out of the wānanga that we held in Te Arawa, where there was a distinction between the two. So distrust referring to lived experience and mistrust is more intuitive, like to do with doubt and uncertainty. And when it comes to mistrust, there are things there that are inherited. often. So experiences that have happened that might be historical in terms of a marae experience with insurance, or it could be historical in terms of Māori experiences generally with the financial system that's more historical. But it's important to have the distinction between the two.

And so what about cultural literacy? That was a thing that came through as well.

Yeah, so people acknowledge that there is a need for increased financial literacy, but equally so, the other side of that coin was the need for the industry itself to think more carefully about their cultural literacy. And that's referring to things like what motivates Māori consumers in their decision making, what makes a conversation safe for Māori to engage in and thinking about values and so on. It's also referring to product suitability. So the lived realities of Māori, wanting to live and work and gather collectively. There's also the reality of collectively owned assets like I referred to earlier. So there's a lot in there. And one of the examples that we heard was of a marae post Cyclone Gabriel wanting to process their claim and they rang their insurance company and said that our marae has been flooded and so on and the person on the other end of the phone asked them what's a marae. So then in the height of their distress they had to then educate their provider on what a marae was.

Wow. What about weather and climate change following on from that? Is that a big concern?

It's a really significant concern for Māori communities. And for iwi, who might have marae spread across the region, that experiences different risks according to where they're located. There's also the reality that for hau kāinga, for people who live at home, whether that's a marae or their papakāinga or just their whānau homestead, they're not going to leave it. So, and that was really strong in the Te Arawa wānanga. So, what solutions can be found to help ensure the sustainability of that connection to whenua and of the ability of the people from there to continue to exercise their kaitiakitanga or their responsibilities to the land and the people there.

Tell me about some of the opportunities or solutions that came out of the research.

What was apparent was that there's been a number of attempts over the years. In the Te Arawa wānanga we heard examples that go back 15 years where people have tried. There are movements within the industry as well. There's an awareness that there needs to be some work done here. But what came through really strongly in both the wānanga and especially in the survey was where trust lies in terms of solution funding. So we asked the question in the survey and 71% of the respondents said that they would prefer iwi-led solutions, which is significant when we recognise that that's a randomised sample. We don't know where people are. We don't know what their connections to their iwi might be. And then alongside that was also 71% said that they would prefer to have navigators which is a navigator is a role where someone is helping them to process through whatever the issue might be, if it's a claim or just to understand their policy. But having that person to advocate and help with the trust is important.

So it seems like there's a real opportunity for solutions designed with Māori, led by Māori, and grounded in their needs and aspirations. Tell me a bit more about that.

There's a recognition that iwi have a much stronger economic base now than say 15, 20 years ago when some of these conversations were being had about solutions and what might be possible through collectivised action. Like I said, there's been some attempts. We have some examples of iwi who are working in this space and coming up with their own solutions. some examples of self-insurance. So one iwi that I'm aware of who put aside $5 million of their settlement money and that's there for their marae to access in the event of some kind of crisis. But yeah, there's an opportunity here for really significant innovation around product suitability and better understanding of value.

Yeah. I'm interested to know a bit more about navigators and their role. Tell me what you found out there.

Interestingly, the navigator role came up in the three research projects. And it's where, like I was saying, you have that person who is advocating, whether it be on behalf of your whānau or your community, with the provider, helping to gain understanding, not just on behalf of their whānau and community, but also helping the provider to understand more of the reality, what the needs are, and then working between the two, helping to nurture that trust and helping to get solutions faster. And that was really evident in post-Canterbury earthquakes. The navigators were there supporting Māori communities and it really reduced admin load, just practical things like that as well.

You also got an extraordinary number of free text responses, which I guess these people were really interested in the topic.

We had 64% of the survey respondents wrote a free text response to the question, If you could say one thing to policymakers in Wellington, what would it be? So aside from the almost 1,000 participants, just that one stat tells us that this is a really important topic for Māori. Māori are concerned about this. And again, the themes were consistent across the free text responses and what they wanted to say and the things that Māori want to be heard, which is a key point of this research, the elevating Māori voices and experiences. So it's the same themes. It's affordability, accessibility, culturally relevant products, products that are relevant to not just the lived realities and collectivisation, but it's also around recognizing the structures. And if we're talking about land trusts or we're talking about post-settlement entities that are legislated entities, there's a need there for solutions that fit that reality and work with those collectively owned structures.

So Liam, I guess that leads to the big question, where do we go from here?

Yeah, so a couple of things. I mean, first of all, this report is very much a starting point for us. It's not a conclusion. But what we've just heard from Hannah is that insurance is clearly a matter of enormous importance. We see that from the level of participation, from the scale of participation in this research. But also, as Hannah said, we learned that hapū, iwi, Māori communities are already working to find practical solutions. And so we want to support that as well. So from here, we'll continue to engage with the industry, with iwi, with other stakeholders to build on these insights but to use them to try to address inequity and to promote innovation. Top of mind for me is that improving the accessibility, trust, responsiveness of insurance for Māori communities has the potential to strengthen the system right across. And that's because if we understand how the system works for different communities, then that helps us to build a better system, a fair, efficient, transparent system, importantly one that's fit for the future for all of us here in Aotearoa. So that's our goal.

I look forward to hearing more about how the FMA, tangata whenua and the insurance sector are working together to explore solutions. For those who want to learn more in the meantime, check out the research on our website at www.fma.govt.nz.